cratylus-第24章

按键盘上方向键 ← 或 → 可快速上下翻页，按键盘上的 Enter 键可回到本书目录页，按键盘上方向键 ↑ 可回到本页顶部！
————未阅读完？加入书签已便下次继续阅读！



namer　in　any　true　sense？　　And　we　must　remember　that　different　legislators

will　not　use　the　same　syllables。　　For　neither　does　every　smith；　although　he

may　be　making　the　same　instrument　for　the　same　purpose；　make　them　all　of

the　same　iron。　　The　form　must　be　the　same；　but　the　material　may　vary；　and

still　the　instrument　may　be　equally　good　of　whatever　iron　made；　whether　in

Hellas　or　in　a　foreign　country；there　is　no　difference。



HERMOGENES：　　Very　true。



SOCRATES：　　And　the　legislator；　whether　he　be　Hellene　or　barbarian；　is　not

therefore　to　be　deemed　by　you　a　worse　legislator；　provided　he　gives　the

true　and　proper　form　of　the　name　in　whatever　syllables；　this　or　that

country　makes　no　matter。



HERMOGENES：　　Quite　true。



SOCRATES：　　But　who　then　is　to　determine　whether　the　proper　form　is　given　to

the　shuttle；　whatever　sort　of　wood　may　be　used？　the　carpenter　who　makes；　or

the　weaver　who　is　to　use　them？



HERMOGENES：　　I　should　say；　he　who　is　to　use　them；　Socrates。



SOCRATES：　　And　who　uses　the　work　of　the　lyre…maker？　　Will　not　he　be　the　man

who　knows　how　to　direct　what　is　being　done；　and　who　will　know　also　whether

the　work　is　being　well　done　or　not？



HERMOGENES：　　Certainly。



SOCRATES：　　And　who　is　he？



HERMOGENES：　　The　player　of　the　lyre。



SOCRATES：　　And　who　will　direct　the　shipwright？



HERMOGENES：　　The　pilot。



SOCRATES：　　And　who　will　be　best　able　to　direct　the　legislator　in　his　work；

and　will　know　whether　the　work　is　well　done；　in　this　or　any　other　country？　

Will　not　the　user　be　the　man？



HERMOGENES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　this　is　he　who　knows　how　to　ask　questions？



HERMOGENES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　how　to　answer　them？



HERMOGENES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　And　him　who　knows　how　to　ask　and　answer　you　would　call　a

dialectician？



HERMOGENES：　　Yes；　that　would　be　his　name。



SOCRATES：　　Then　the　work　of　the　carpenter　is　to　make　a　rudder；　and　the

pilot　has　to　direct　him；　if　the　rudder　is　to　be　well　made。



HERMOGENES：　　True。



SOCRATES：　　And　the　work　of　the　legislator　is　to　give　names；　and　the

dialectician　must　be　his　director　if　the　names　are　to　be　rightly　given？



HERMOGENES：　　That　is　true。



SOCRATES：　　Then；　Hermogenes；　I　should　say　that　this　giving　of　names　can　be

no　such　light　matter　as　you　fancy；　or　the　work　of　light　or　chance　persons；

and　Cratylus　is　right　in　saying　that　things　have　names　by　nature；　and　that

not　every　man　is　an　artificer　of　names；　but　he　only　who　looks　to　the　name

which　each　thing　by　nature　has；　and　is　able　to　express　the　true　forms　of

things　in　letters　and　syllables。



HERMOGENES：　　I　cannot　answer　you；　Socrates；　but　I　find　a　difficulty　in

changing　my　opinion　all　in　a　moment；　and　I　think　that　I　should　be　more

readily　persuaded；　if　you　would　show　me　what　this　is　which　you　term　the

natural　fitness　of　names。



SOCRATES：　　My　good　Hermogenes；　I　have　none　to　show。　　Was　I　not　telling　you

just　now　（but　you　have　forgotten）；　that　I　knew　nothing；　and　proposing　to

share　the　enquiry　with　you？　　But　now　that　you　and　I　have　talked　over　the

matter；　a　step　has　been　gained；　for　we　have　discovered　that　names　have　by

nature　a　truth；　and　that　not　every　man　knows　how　to　give　a　thing　a　name。



HERMOGENES：　　Very　good。



SOCRATES：　　And　what　is　the　nature　of　this　truth　or　correctness　of　names？　

That；　if　you　care　to　know；　is　the　next　question。



HERMOGENES：　　Certainly；　I　care　to　know。



SOCRATES：　　Then　reflect。



HERMOGENES：　　How　shall　I　reflect？



SOCRATES：　　The　true　way　is　to　have　the　assistance　of　those　who　know；　and

you　must　pay　them　well　both　in　money　and　in　thanks；　these　are　the　Sophists；

of　whom　your　brother；　Callias；　hasrather　dearlybought　the　reputation　of

wisdom。　　But　you　have　not　yet　come　into　your　inheritance；　and　therefore　you

had　better　go　to　him；　and　beg　and　entreat　him　to　tell　you　what　he　has

learnt　from　Protagoras　about　the　fitness　of　names。



HERMOGENES：　　But　how　inconsistent　should　I　be；　if；　whilst　repudiating

Protagoras　and　his　truth　（'Truth'　was　the　title　of　the　book　of　Protagoras；

compare　Theaet。）；　I　were　to　attach　any　value　to　what　he　and　his　book

affirm！



SOCRATES：　　Then　if　you　despise　him；　you　must　learn　of　Homer　and　the　poets。



HERMOGENES：　　And　where　does　Homer　say　anything　about　names；　and　what　does

he　say？



SOCRATES：　　He　often　speaks　of　them；　notably　and　nobly　in　the　places　where

he　distinguishes　the　different　names　which　Gods　and　men　give　to　the　same

things。　　Does　he　not　in　these　passages　make　a　remarkable　statement　about

the　correctness　of　names？　　For　the　Gods　must　clearly　be　supposed　to　call

things　by　their　right　and　natural　names；　do　you　not　think　so？



HERMOGENES：　　Why；　of　course　they　call　them　rightly；　if　they　call　them　at

all。　　But　to　what　are　you　referring？



SOCRATES：　　Do　you　not　know　what　he　says　about　the　river　in　Troy　who　had　a

single　combat　with　Hephaestus？



'Whom；'　as　he　says；　'the　Gods　call　Xanthus；　and　men　call　Scamander。'



HERMOGENES：　　I　remember。



SOCRATES：　　Well；　and　about　this　riverto　know　that　he　ought　to　be　called

Xanthus　and　not　Scamanderis　not　that　a　solemn　lesson？　　Or　about　the　bird

which；　as　he　says；



'The　Gods　call　Chalcis；　and　men　Cymindis：'



to　be　taught　how　much　more　correct　the　name　Chalcis　is　than　the　name

Cymindisdo　you　deem　that　a　light　matter？　　Or　about　Batieia　and　Myrina？　

（Compare　Il。　'The　hill　which　men　call　Batieia　and　the　immortals　the　tomb　of

the　sportive　Myrina。'）　　And　there　are　many　other　observations　of　the　same

kind　in　Homer　and　other　poets。　　Now；　I　think　that　this　is　beyond　the

understanding　of　you　and　me；　but　the　names　of　Scamandrius　and　Astyanax；

which　he　affirms　to　have　been　the　names　of　Hector's　son；　are　more　within

the　range　of　human　faculties；　as　I　am　disposed　to　think；　and　what　the　poet

means　by　correctness　may　be　more　readily　apprehended　in　that　instance：　　you

will　remember　I　dare　say　the　lines　to　which　I　refer？　　（Il。）



HERMOGENES：　　I　do。



SOCRATES：　　Let　me　ask　you；　then；　which　did　Homer　think　the　more　correct　of

the　names　given　to　Hector's　sonAstyanax　or　Scamandrius？



HERMOGENES：　　I　do　not　know。



SOCRATES：　　How　would　you　answer；　if　you　were　asked　whether　the　wise　or　the

unwise　are　more　likely　to　give　correct　names？



HERMOGENES：　　I　should　say　the　wise；　of　course。



SOCRATES：　　And　are　the　men　or　the　women　of　a　city；　taken　as　a　class；　the

wiser？



HERMOGENES：　　I　should　say；　the　men。



SOCRATES：　　And　Homer；　as　you　know；　says　that　the　Trojan　men　called　him

Astyanax　（king　of　the　city）；　but　if　the　men　called　him　Astyanax；　the　other

name　of　Scamandrius　could　only　have　been　given　to　him　by　the　women。



HERMOGENES：　　That　may　be　inferred。



SOCRATES：　　And　must　not　Homer　have　imagined　the　Trojans　to　be　wiser　than

their　wives？



HERMOGENES：　　To　be　sure。



SOCRATES：　　Then　he　must　have　thought　Astyanax　to　be　a　more　correct　name　for

the　boy　than　Scamandrius？



HERMOGENES：　　Clearly。



SOCRATES：　　And　what　is　the　reason　of　this？　　Let　us　consider：does　he　not

himself　suggest　a　very　good　reason；　when　he　says；



'For　he　alone　defended　their　city　and　long　walls'？



This　appears　to　be　a　good　reason　for　calling　the　son　of　the　saviour　king　of

the　city　which　his　father　was　saving；　as　Homer　observes。



HERMOGENES：　　I　see。



SOCRATES：　　Why；　Hermogenes；　I　do　not　as　yet　see　myself；　and　do　you？



HERMOGENES：　　No；　indeed；　not　I。



SOCRATES：　　But　tell　me；　friend；　did　not　Homer　himself　also　give　Hector　his

name？



HERMOGENES：　　What　of　that？



SOCRATES：　　The　name　appears　to　me　to　be　very　nearly　the　same　as　the　name　of

Astyanaxboth　are　Hellenic；　and　a　king　（anax）　and　a　holder　（ektor）　have

nearly　the　same　meaning；　and　are　both　descriptive　of　a　king；　for　a　man　is

clearly　the　holder　of　that　of　which　he　is　king；　he　rules；　and　owns；　and

holds　it。　　But；　perhaps；　you　may　think　that　I　am　talking　nonsense；　and

indeed　I　believe　that　I　myself　did　not　know　what　I　meant　when　I