alcibiades ii-第2章

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a　fever　is　sick；　but　the　sick；　I　conceive；　do　not　all　have　fever　or　gout　or

ophthalmia；　although　each　of　these　is　a　disease；　which；　according　to　those

whom　we　call　physicians；　may　require　a　different　treatment。　　They　are　not

all　alike；　nor　do　they　produce　the　same　result；　but　each　has　its　own

effect；　and　yet　they　are　all　diseases。　　May　we　not　take　an　illustration

from　the　artizans？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly。



SOCRATES：　　There　are　cobblers　and　carpenters　and　sculptors　and　others　of

all　sorts　and　kinds；　whom　we　need　not　stop　to　enumerate。　　All　have　their

distinct　employments　and　all　are　workmen；　although　they　are　not　all　of　them

cobblers　or　carpenters　or　sculptors。



ALCIBIADES：　　No；　indeed。



SOCRATES：　　And　in　like　manner　men　differ　in　regard　to　want　of　sense。　　Those

who　are　most　out　of　their　wits　we　call　'madmen；'　while　we　term　those　who

are　less　far　gone　'stupid'　or　'idiotic；'　or；　if　we　prefer　gentler　language；

describe　them　as　'romantic'　or　'simple…minded；'　or；　again；　as　'innocent'　or

'inexperienced'　or　'foolish。'　　You　may　even　find　other　names；　if　you　seek

for　them；　but　by　all　of　them　lack　of　sense　is　intended。　　They　only　differ

as　one　art　appeared　to　us　to　differ　from　another　or　one　disease　from

another。　　Or　what　is　your　opinion？



ALCIBIADES：　　I　agree　with　you。



SOCRATES：　　Then　let　us　return　to　the　point　at　which　we　digressed。　　We　said

at　first　that　we　should　have　to　consider　who　were　the　wise　and　who　the

foolish。　　For　we　acknowledged　that　there　are　these　two　classes？　　Did　we

not？



ALCIBIADES：　　To　be　sure。



SOCRATES：　　And　you　regard　those　as　sensible　who　know　what　ought　to　be　done

or　said？



ALCIBIADES：　　Yes。



SOCRATES：　　The　senseless　are　those　who　do　not　know　this？



ALCIBIADES：　　True。



SOCRATES：　　The　latter　will　say　or　do　what　they　ought　not　without　their　own

knowledge？



ALCIBIADES：　　Exactly。



SOCRATES：　　Oedipus；　as　I　was　saying；　Alcibiades；　was　a　person　of　this　sort。　

And　even　now…a…days　you　will　find　many　who　（have　offered　inauspicious

prayers）；　although；　unlike　him；　they　were　not　in　anger　nor　thought　that

they　were　asking　evil。　　He　neither　sought；　nor　supposed　that　he　sought　for

good；　but　others　have　had　quite　the　contrary　notion。　　I　believe　that　if　the

God　whom　you　are　about　to　consult　should　appear　to　you；　and；　in

anticipation　of　your　request；　enquired　whether　you　would　be　contented　to

become　tyrant　of　Athens；　and　if　this　seemed　in　your　eyes　a　small　and　mean

thing；　should　add　to　it　the　dominion　of　all　Hellas；　and　seeing　that　even

then　you　would　not　be　satisfied　unless　you　were　ruler　of　the　whole　of

Europe；　should　promise；　not　only　that；　but；　if　you　so　desired；　should

proclaim　to　all　mankind　in　one　and　the　same　day　that　Alcibiades；　son　of

Cleinias；　was　tyrant：in　such　a　case；　I　imagine；　you　would　depart　full　of

joy；　as　one　who　had　obtained　the　greatest　of　goods。



ALCIBIADES：　　And　not　only　I；　Socrates；　but　any　one　else　who　should　meet

with　such　luck。



SOCRATES：　　Yet　you　would　not　accept　the　dominion　and　lordship　of　all　the

Hellenes　and　all　the　barbarians　in　exchange　for　your　life？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly　not：　　for　then　what　use　could　I　make　of　them？



SOCRATES：　　And　would　you　accept　them　if　you　were　likely　to　use　them　to　a

bad　and　mischievous　end？



ALCIBIADES：　　I　would　not。



SOCRATES：　　You　see　that　it　is　not　safe　for　a　man　either　rashly　to　accept

whatever　is　offered　him；　or　himself　to　request　a　thing；　if　he　is　likely　to

suffer　thereby　or　immediately　to　lose　his　life。　　And　yet　we　could　tell　of

many　who；　having　long　desired　and　diligently　laboured　to　obtain　a　tyranny；

thinking　that　thus　they　would　procure　an　advantage；　have　nevertheless

fallen　victims　to　designing　enemies。　　You　must　have　heard　of　what　happened

only　the　other　day；　how　Archelaus　of　Macedonia　was　slain　by　his　beloved

（compare　Aristotle；　Pol。）；　whose　love　for　the　tyranny　was　not　less　than

that　of　Archelaus　for　him。　　The　tyrannicide　expected　by　his　crime　to　become

tyrant　and　afterwards　to　have　a　happy　life；　but　when　he　had　held　the

tyranny　three　or　four　days；　he　was　in　his　turn　conspired　against　and　slain。

Or　look　at　certain　of　our　own　citizens；and　of　their　actions　we　have　been

not　hearers；　but　eyewitnesses；who　have　desired　to　obtain　military

command：　　of　those　who　have　gained　their　object；　some　are　even　to　this　day

exiles　from　the　city；　while　others　have　lost　their　lives。　　And　even　they

who　seem　to　have　fared　best；　have　not　only　gone　through　many　perils　and

terrors　during　their　office；　but　after　their　return　home　they　have　been

beset　by　informers　worse　than　they　once　were　by　their　foes；　insomuch　that

several　of　them　have　wished　that　they　had　remained　in　a　private　station

rather　than　have　had　the　glories　of　command。　　If；　indeed；　such　perils　and

terrors　were　of　profit　to　the　commonwealth；　there　would　be　reason　in

undergoing　them；　but　the　very　contrary　is　the　case。　　Again；　you　will　find

persons　who　have　prayed　for　offspring；　and　when　their　prayers　were　heard；

have　fallen　into　the　greatest　pains　and　sufferings。　　For　some　have　begotten

children　who　were　utterly　bad；　and　have　therefore　passed　all　their　days　in

misery；　while　the　parents　of　good　children　have　undergone　the　misfortune　of

losing　them；　and　have　been　so　little　happier　than　the　others　that　they

would　have　preferred　never　to　have　had　children　rather　than　to　have　had

them　and　lost　them。　　And　yet；　although　these　and　the　like　examples　are

manifest　and　known　of　all；　it　is　rare　to　find　any　one　who　has　refused　what

has　been　offered　him；　or；　if　he　were　likely　to　gain　aught　by　prayer；　has

refrained　from　making　his　petition。　　The　mass　of　mankind　would　not　decline

to　accept　a　tyranny；　or　the　command　of　an　army；　or　any　of　the　numerous

things　which　cause　more　harm　than　good：　　but　rather；　if　they　had　them　not；

would　have　prayed　to　obtain　them。　　And　often　in　a　short　space　of　time　they

change　their　tone；　and　wish　their　old　prayers　unsaid。　　Wherefore　also　I

suspect　that　men　are　entirely　wrong　when　they　blame　the　gods　as　the　authors

of　the　ills　which　befall　them　（compare　Republic）：　　'their　own　presumption；'

or　folly　（whichever　is　the　right　word）



'Has　brought　these　unmeasured　woes　upon　them。'　　（Homer。　Odyss。）



He　must　have　been　a　wise　poet；　Alcibiades；　who；　seeing　as　I　believe；　his

friends　foolishly　praying　for　and　doing　things　which　would　not　really

profit　them；　offered　up　a　common　prayer　in　behalf　of　them　all：



'King　Zeus；　grant　us　good　whether　prayed　for　or　unsought　by　us；

But　that　which　we　ask　amiss；　do　thou　avert。'　　（The　author　of　these　lines；

which　are　probably　of　Pythagorean　origin；　is　unknown。　　They　are　found　also

in　the　Anthology　（Anth。　Pal。）。）



In　my　opinion；　I　say；　the　poet　spoke　both　well　and　prudently；　but　if　you

have　anything　to　say　in　answer　to　him；　speak　out。



ALCIBIADES：　　It　is　difficult；　Socrates；　to　oppose　what　has　been　well　said。　

And　I　perceive　how　many　are　the　ills　of　which　ignorance　is　the　cause；

since；　as　would　appear；　through　ignorance　we　not　only　do；　but　what　is

worse；　pray　for　the　greatest　evils。　　No　man　would　imagine　that　he　would　do

so；　he　would　rather　suppose　that　he　was　quite　capable　of　praying　for　what

was　best：　　to　call　down　evils　seems　more　like　a　curse　than　a　prayer。



SOCRATES：　　But　perhaps；　my　good　friend；　some　one　who　is　wiser　than　either

you　or　I　will　say　that　we　have　no　right　to　blame　ignorance　thus　rashly；

unless　we　can　add　what　ignorance　we　mean　and　of　what；　and　also　to　whom　and

how　it　is　respectively　a　good　or　an　evil？



ALCIBIADES：　　How　do　you　mean？　　Can　ignorance　possibly　be　better　than

knowledge　for　any　person　in　any　conceivable　case？



SOCRATES：　　So　I　believe：you　do　not　think　so？



ALCIBIADES：　　Certainly　not。



SOCRATES：　　And　yet　surely　I　may　not　suppose　that　you　would　ever　wish　to　act

towards　your　mother　as　they　say　that　Orestes　and　Alcmeon　and　others　have

done　towards　their　parent。



ALCIBIADES：　　Good　words；　Socrates；　prithee。



SOCRATES