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                        ALCIBIADES II 



        ALCIBIADES II 



                 Platonic Imitator 



Translated by Benjamin Jowett 



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                                      ALCIBIADES II 



                              APPENDIX II。 



     The two dialogues which are translated in the second appendix are not 

mentioned by Aristotle�察�or by any early authority�察�and have no claim to be 

ascribed to Plato。 They are examples of Platonic dialogues to be assigned 

probably to the second or third generation after Plato�察�when his writings 

were   well   known   at   Athens   and   Alexandria。   They   exhibit   considerable 

originality�察�and are remarkable for containing several thoughts of the sort 

which we suppose to be modern rather than ancient�察�and which therefore 

have   a   peculiar   interest   for   us。   The   Second   Alcibiades   shows   that   the 

difficulties about prayer which have perplexed Christian theologians were 

not unknown among the followers of Plato。 The Eryxias was doubted by 

the ancients themselves�此�yet it may claim the distinction of being�察�among 

all   Greek    or  Roman      writings�察  �the   one   which    anticipates    in  the  most 

striking   manner   the   modern   science   of   political   economy   and   gives   an 

abstract form to some of its principal doctrines。 

     For the translation of these two dialogues I am indebted to my friend 

and secretary�察�Mr。 Knight。 

     That the Dialogue which goes by the name of the Second Alcibiades is 

a   genuine   writing   of   Plato   will   not   be   maintained   by  any  modern   critic�察�

and was hardly believed by the ancients themselves。 The dialectic is poor 

and weak。 There is no power over language�察�or beauty of style�察�and there 

is a certain abruptness and agroikia in the conversation�察�which is very un´ 

Platonic。 The   best   passage   is   probably   that   about   the   poets��the   remark 

that the poet�察�who is of a reserved disposition�察�is uncommonly difficult to 

understand�察�and the ridiculous interpretation of Homer�察�are entirely in the 

spirit of Plato ��compare Protag�察�Ion�察�Apol。��。 The characters are ill´ drawn。 

Socrates     assumes     the  'superior    person'   and   preaches    too   much�察   �while 

Alcibiades is stupid and heavy´in´hand。 There are traces of Stoic influence 

in   the   general   tone   and   phraseology      of  the   Dialogue     ��compare     opos 

melesei tis。。。kaka�此�oti pas aphron mainetai���此�and the writer seems to have 

been   acquainted   with   the   'Laws'   of   Plato   ��compare   Laws��。   An   incident 

from   the   Symposium   is   rather   clumsily   introduced�察  �and   two   somewhat 

hackneyed quotations ��Symp。�察�Gorg。�� recur。 The reference to the death of 



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Archelaus   as   having   occurred        'quite   lately'   is   only   a   fiction�察 �probably 

suggested   by   the   Gorgias�察  �where   the   story   of   Archelaus   is   told�察  �and   a 

similar phrase occurs��ta gar echthes kai proen gegonota tauta�察�k。t。l。 There 

are several passages which are either corrupt or extremely ill´ expressed。 

But there   is   a   modern interest   in   the   subject of   the dialogue�察  �and it is   a 

good   example   of   a   short   spurious   work�察  �which   may  be   attributed   to   the 

second or third century before Christ。 



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                          ALCIBIADES II 



    PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE�此�Socrates and Alcibiades。 

       SOCRATES�此�Are you going�察�Alcibiades�察�to offer prayer to Zeus�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�Yes�察�Socrates�察�I am。 

    SOCRATES�此  �you   seem   to   be   troubled   and   to   cast   your   eyes   on   the 

ground�察�as though you were thinking about something。 

    ALCIBIADES�此�Of what do you suppose that I am thinking�拭�

    SOCRATES�此�Of the greatest of all things�察�as I believe。 Tell me�察�do you 

not   suppose   that   the   Gods   sometimes   partly   grant   and   partly   reject   the 

requests which we make in public and private�察�and favour some persons 

and not others�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�Certainly。 

    SOCRATES�此�Do you not imagine�察�then�察�that a man ought to be very 

careful�察  �lest  perchance   without    knowing    it  he  implore   great  evils  for 

himself�察�deeming that he is asking for good�察�especially if the Gods are in 

the mood to grant whatever he may request�拭�There is the story of Oedipus�察�

for   instance�察 �who prayed   that   his   children   might divide their   inheritance 

between them by the sword�此�he did not�察�as he might have done�察�beg that 

his present evils might be averted�察�but called down new ones。 And was not 

his prayer accomplished�察�and did not many and terrible evils thence arise�察�

upon which I need not dilate�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此  �Yes�察  �Socrates�察  �but   you   are   speaking   of   a   madman�此�

surely you do not think that any one in his senses would venture to make 

such a prayer�拭�

    SOCRATES�此        �Madness�察   �then�察  �you   consider   to  be  the  opposite    of 

discretion�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�Of course。 

    SOCRATES�此�And some men seem to you to be discreet�察�and others the 

contrary�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�They do。 

    SOCRATES�此�Well�察�then�察�let us discuss who these are。 We acknowledge 

that some are discreet�察�some foolish�察�and that some are mad�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�Yes。 



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    SOCRATES�此�And again�察�there are some who are in health�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�There are。 

    SOCRATES�此�While others are ailing�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�Yes。 

    SOCRATES�此�And they are not the same�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�Certainly not。 

    SOCRATES�此�Nor are there any who are in neither state�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�No。 

    SOCRATES�此�A man must either be sick or be well�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�That is my opinion。 

    SOCRATES�此�Very good�此�and do you think the same about discretion 

and want of discretion�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�How do you mean�拭�

    SOCRATES�此�Do you believe that a man must be either in or out of his 

senses�察  �or   is   there   some   third   or   intermediate   condition�察  �in   which   he   is 

neither one nor the other�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�Decidedly not。 

    SOCRATES�此�He must be either sane or insane�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�So I suppose。 

    SOCRATES�此�Did you not acknowledge that madness was the opposite 

of discretion�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�Yes。 

    SOCRATES�此        �And   that  there  is  no  third  or  middle   term   between 

discretion and indiscretion�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�True。 

    SOCRATES�此�And there cannot be two opposites to one thing�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�There cannot。 

    SOCRATES�此�Then madness and want of sense are the same�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�That appears to be the case。 

    SOCRATES�此�We shall be in the right�察�therefore�察�Alcibiades�察�if we say 

that all who are senseless are mad。 For example�察�if among persons of your 

own age or older than yourself there are some who are senseless��as there 

certainly are��they are mad。 For tell me�察�by heaven�察�do you not think that 

in   the   city  the   wise   are   few�察  �while   the   foolish�察  �whom   you   call   mad�察  �are 



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                                    ALCIBIADES II 



many�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�I do。 

     SOCRATES�此  �But   how   could   we   live   in   safety   with   so   many   crazy 

people�拭�Should we not long since have paid the penalty at their hands�察�and 

have   been   struck   and   beaten   and   endured   every   other   form   of   ill´usage 

which madmen are wont to inflict�拭�Consider�察�my dear friend�此�may it not be 

quite otherwise�拭�

    ALCIBIADES�此�Why�察�Socrates�察�how is that possible�拭�I must have been 

mi

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