唄診窮徨慕 > 哂猟圻广窮徨慕 > the memorabilia(射廷瞳) >

及46嫗

the memorabilia(射廷瞳)-及46嫗

弌傍�� the memorabilia(射廷瞳) 忖方�� 耽匈4000忖

梓囚徒貧圭�鮗� ○ 賜 ★ 辛酔堀貧和鍬匈��梓囚徒貧議 Enter 囚辛指欺云慕朕村匈��梓囚徒貧圭�鮗� ● 辛指欺云匈競何��
!!!!隆堋響頼��紗秘慕禰厮宴和肝写偬堋響��




     Euth。 Deceit clearly on the side of wrong。 

     Soc。 Well�察�and chicanery��27�А�or mischief of any sort�拭�



                                               147 


´ Page 148´

                                        The Memorabilia 



     ��27�А�Reading ��to kakourgein�� ��= furari�察�Sturz���察�al。 ��kleptein���察�Stob。 

     Euth。 That too。 

     Soc。 And the enslavement of free´born men�殖�28�А�

     ��28�А�Or�察 �the kidnapping of men into slavery。; ��to andrapodizesthai�� = 

the reduction of a free´born man to a state of slavery。 Slavery                       itself 

�┌�douleia����      being   regarded     as  the  normal    condition     of  a        certain 

portion of the human race and not in itself immoral。 

     Euth。 That too。 

     Soc。 And   we   cannot   allow   any   of   these   to   lie   on   the   R   side   of   the 

account�察�to the side of right and justice�察�can we�察�Euthydemus�拭�

     It would be monstrous ��he replied��。 

     Soc。  Very   good。   But   supposing   a   man   to   be   elected   general�察  �and   he 

succeeds in enslaving an unjust�察�wicked�察�and hostile state�察�are we to say 

that he is doing wrong�拭�

     Euth。 By no means。 

     Soc。 Shall we not admit that he is doing what is right�拭�

     Euth。 Certainly。 

     Soc。 Again�察�suppose he deceives the foe while at war with them�拭�

     Euth。 That would be all fair and right also。 

     Soc。 Or steals and pillages their property�拭�would he not be doing what 

is right�拭�

     Euth。   Certainly�察    �when    you   began    I  thought   you   were    limiting   the 

question to the case of friends。 

     Soc。 So then everything which we set down on the side of Wrong will 

now have to be placed to the credit of Right�拭�

     Euth。 Apparently。 

     Soc。 Very  well   then�察�let us so   place them�察  �and   please�察  �let us   make   a 

new definitionthat while it is right to do such things to a foe�察�it is wrong 

to do them to a friend�察�but in dealing with the latter it behoves us to be as 

straightforward as possible。��29�А�

     ��29�А�Or�察 �an absolutely straightforward course is necessary。; 

     I quite assent ��replied Euthydemus��。 

     So far so good ��remarked Socrates���察�but if a general�察�seeing his troops 



                                               148 


´ Page 149´

                                        The Memorabilia 



demoralised�察�were to invent a tale to the effect that reinforcements were 

coming�察�and by means of this false statement should revive the courage of 

his men�察�to which of the two accounts shall we place that act of fraud�殖�30�А�

     ��30�А�Cf。 ;Hell。; IV。 iii。 10�察 �Cyrop。; I。 vi。 31。 

     On the side of right�察�to my notion ��he replied��。 

     Soc。   Or   again�察  �if   a   man   chanced   to   have   a   son   ill   and   in   need   of 

medicine�察�which the child refused to take�察�and supposing the father by an 

act of deceit to administer it under the guise of something nice to eat�察�and 

by service of that lie to restore the boy to health�察�to which account shall we 

set down this fraud�拭�

     Euth。 In my judgment it too should be placed to the same account。 

     Soc。 Well�察�supposing you have a friend in deplorably low spirits�察�and 

you are afraid he will make away with himselfaccordingly you rob him 

of his knife   or other such instrument�此  �to   which side ought   we to set the 

theft�拭�

     Euth。 That too must surely be placed to the score of right behaviour。 

     Soc。   I   understand   you   to   say   that   a   straightforward   course   is   not   in 

every case to be pursued even in dealing with friends�拭�

     Heaven forbid� 。�the youth exclaimed��。 If you will allow me�察�I rescind 

my former statement。��31�А�

     ��31�А�See above�察�I。 ii。 44 �┌�anatithemai����。 

     Soc。 Allow you� �Of course you mayanything rather than make a false 

entry on our lists。 。 。 。 But there is just another point we ought not to leave 

uninvestigated。 Let us take the case of deceiving a friend to his detriment�此�

which is the more wrongfulto do so voluntarily or unintentionally�拭�

     Euth。 Really�察�Socrates�察  �I have ceased   to believe in   my own   answers�察�

for all my former admissions and conceptions seem to me other than I first 

supposed them。��32�А�Still�察�if I may hazard one more opinion�察�the intentional 

deceiver�察�I should say�察�is worse than the involuntary。 

     ��32�А�Or�察 �all my original positions seem to me now other than I first 

conceived      them;�察    �or�察  �everything     I  first  asserted    seems    now     to  be 

twisted topsy´turvy。; 

     Soc。 And is it your opinion that there is a lore and science of Right and 



                                               149 


´ Page 150´

                                         The Memorabilia 



Justice just as there is of letters and grammar�殖�33�А�

     ��33�А。�mathesis kai episteme tou dikaiou��a doctrine and a knowledge 

of the Just。 

     Euth。 That is my opinion。 

     Soc。 And which should you say was more a man of letters��34��he who 

intentionally misspells or misreads�察�or he who does so unconsciously�拭�

     ��34�А�Or�察 �more grammatical;�察 �the better grammarian。; 

     Euth。 He who does so intentionally�察�I should say�察�because he can spell 

or read correctly whenever he chooses。 

     Soc。 Then the voluntary  misspeller may be a lettered person�察�but the 

involuntary offender is an illiterate�殖�35�А�

     ��35�А   �Or�察    �In   fact�察  �he   who    sins   against     the   lore   of   grammer 

intentionally may be a good grammarian and a man of letters�察�but                          he 

who does so involuntarily is illiterate and a bad grammarian�拭─�

     Euth。    True�察  �he   must    be。   I  do  not   see   how    to  escape    from    that 

conclusion。 

     Soc。 And which of the two knows what is righthe who intentionally 

lies and deceives�察�or he who lies and deceives unconsciously�殖�36�А�

     ��36�А  �Or�察  �Soc。 And   does   he   who   lies   and   deceives   with   intent   know 

what          is right rather than he who does either or both unconsciously�拭�

           Euth。 Clearly he does。 

     Euth。 The intentional and conscious liar clearly。 

     Soc。 Well then�察�your statement is this�此�on the one hand�察�the man who 

has   the   knowledge   of   letters   is   more   lettered   than   he   who   has   no   such 

knowledge�殖�37�А�

     ��37�А   �Or�察  �Soc。   It   is   a   fair   inference�察  �is   it   not�察  �that   he   who   has   the 

��episteme��   of   grammar   is   more   grammatical   than   he   who   has   no   such 

��episteme���拭�

           Euth。 Yes。 

           Soc。 And   he   who   has   the   ��episteme��   of   things   rightful   is   more 

righteous than he who lacks the ��episteme���拭�See Plat。 ;Hipp。                         min。;�察�

Arist。 ;Eth。 Eud。; VI。 v。 7。 

     Euth。 Yes。 



                                               150 


´ Page 151´

                                         The Memorabilia 



     Soc。 And�察�on the other�察�he who has the knowledge of what is right is 

more righteous than he who lacks that knowledge�拭�

     Euth。 I suppose it is�察�but for the life of me I cannot make head or tail of 

my own admission。��38�А�

     ��38�А  �Lit。   ;Apparently�察  �but   I   appear   to   myself   to   be   saying   this   also�察�

heaven knows how。; See Jowett�察 �Plato�察─�ii。 p。 416 ��ed。 2��。 

     Soc。 Well ��look at it like this��。 Suppose a man to be anxious to speak 

the truth�察�but he is never able to hold the same language about a thing for 

two   minutes   together。   First   he   says�此   �The   road   is   towards   the   east�察─  �and 

then   he   says�察   �No�察  �it's   towards   the   west;�察  �or�察  �running   up   a   column   of 

figures�察�now he makes the product this�察�and again he makes it that�察�now 

more�察�now lesswhat do you think of such a man�拭�

     Euth。 Heaven help us� �clearly he does not know what he thought   he 

knew。 

     Soc。     And    you    know     the    appellation     given    to   certain   people 

;slavish�察�

卦指朕村 貧匯匈 和匯匈 指欺競何 壘��1�� 家��2��

低辛嬬浪散議